I just don't know WHAT to beleive

[Grease Monkey]

Its really hard to know what to beleive now as I've been thinking about evolution and deism and atheism... and a whole lot of other things... and now I'm confused.

People tell me that evolution cannot be proven.. and I've proved by personal experience that Creation cannot be trusted. I CANT go back to Christianity.... so what do I turn to???

[webmdave]

For me it's deciding which proposition is more likely. Is it more plausible to posit that nature has natural explanations, or does plausibility lie on the side of supernaturalism?

A quick review of history indicates that people, when confronted with unanswerable questions about nature, made up supernatural answers. Lightening bolts are spears thrown by a god. Earthquakes are the expressed wrath of a god. Pandemics and plagues are judgments of a god. Meteorites are signs from a god. Eagles flying overhead are supernatural omens. The list could go on and on.

The point is, a perfectly honest answer to some of these as yet unanswered mysteries is, "I don't know."

The reality is, religionists don't know anything. They have a belief based on an ancient book of myths. Scientists could be wrong, but when more information is garnered, their theories and explanations are adjusted. Religionists are predisposed to mold the interpretation of reality so it conforms to their religious presuppositions. Scientists may in some cases hold on to outmoded ideas, but eventually other scientists rise up to correct the former mistakes of the past.

Either way, whether the current theory evolution is absolute or whether there may be a as yet another undiscovered scientific theory to explain the evolutionary aspect of nature, no one is threatened with hell over acceptance or belief any scientific theories.

I don't know if evolution is "true" or not. I don't have the education, the interest, or the comprehension skills to fully grasp all the concepts presented. I also don't have a full grasp of how electrons can travel through copper to keep my computer running and online. I accept that electricity works, and I accept that it is a part of nature. I don't conclude that just because invisible electrons traveling through solid metal to power my monitor is beyond my mental acuity and sounds downright bizarre to me that electricity is therefore supernatural. How silly would be that be? Likewise, evolution is difficult to wrap my head around. Still, returning to my opening sentence, in light of previously held religious "beliefs" regarding much of nature, beliefs which have all been since proved ridiculous, I think it highly likely that the rest of nature also has a natural explanation.

I hope that helps.

[Zenobia]

My personal take is that we don't have to "believe in" anything at all. I know that isn't an easy answer, but the truth is no one on this planet has all the answers. Sometimes it's nice to have a "taste" of everything just to see what it's like. For myself, I found that I personally "resonate" with the pagan path - although I think that definition is too narrow. I definately find my spiritual needs are met by exploring the mysteries of nature, her cycles, her endless beauty and magick. In nature, I see the divine in every flower, every tree, every bubbling brook, every animal. There is harmony, beauty, perfection so complex, imho it could never have been "planned" by some old man in the sky. It had to evolve that way, because everything fits so tightly and everything is so interdependent that nature is like a tightly woven tapestry. Anyway, sorry for rambling. Just sharing what works for me. Everyone's spiritual needs are different...

[SonoranBob]

You turn to your own perfectly serviceable mind and learn to use it.

Like you, my personal experience has unambiguously proven that Christianity does not accurately reflect reality, nor does it work in any practical sense. For me, that way lies madness. No turning back.

You would think -- you would think -- that someone, somewhere would have figured out reality and packaged it up in some graspable form by now, and that we simply weren't fortunate to pick the "right" belief system.

Alas ... 'taint so.

Begin by repeating these three liberating words: I DON'T KNOW. Go ahead. Say it. Not so bad, is it?

Have the humility to acknowledge that you don't know. Don't be afraid to admit it. Then set about finding out what you CAN know. You'll find that the list is actually pretty short. You'll end up not so much with a list of beliefs as with a list of suspicions about things that might plausibly be so. That is alright. It's the nature of life.

You're coming out of a belief system that sells certainty, so that you don't have to be exposed to the discomfort of being uncertain. You'll find that most religions sell certainty. Some more obnoxiously than others.

Now you have an opportunity to do one of two things:

1) Succumb to some other brand of certainty and repeat the same mistakes
2) Embrace uncertainty as the natural order of things

Come on in, the water is ... well, not exactly fine, but at least you are free to think and feel and to more objectively judge what works and what doesn't -- for you.

I could tell you what works for me, but that doesn't mean it'll work for you.

You are capable of feeling what you feel and asking questions about how to feel better and making changes and experimenting, etc. You just aren't used to using that capability.

Welcome to the real world.

--Bob

[Hammurabi]

Grease Monkey, the universe is a bizarre, epic, vast, confusing place. When you were in the fold of the church, they provided a great deal of certainty that you are now realizing was just a fabrication. To feel that certain about ANYTHING, is pretty much a sure fire way of telling that you aren't thinking about a subject and are simply believing. Welcome to the human condition, my friend, I hope in time you find the quest for discovery to be as enriching and exciting as I do.

On your point: "People tell me that evolution cannot be proven..." That is absolutely true. It is impossible to prove evolution for the same reason it is impossible to prove gravity, because in order to do so you would have to observe every single natural phenomenon that has ever and will ever occur and all said phenomenon would have to fit within said theory. Contrast this with, say, mathematical theory where you can prove the theory (making it into a law) through a mathematical proof. What is important in weighing the validity of a scientific theory is not its provability, but rather its falsifiability. A scientific theory can only be such if it can be falsified, that is to have the possibility of being proven to be incorrect under some set of conditions. For evolution there are lots of ways it could be falsified, but it never has been. And it's not like people haven't been trying. Ever since Darwin came up with the theory people have been virulently attacking the theory to no avail. In fact, because the theory has had to be defended from over a century of constant attacks, the theory of evolution has a greater body of evidence amassed in its favor than any other scientific theory ever. That includes the Atomic Theory, String Theory, and the Theory of Gravity! (which is actually unsurprising if you think about it, gravity is pretty uncontroversial and readily observable so it's had to defend against many, many fewer attacks, though it has significantly changed since Newton's F=ma, due in large part to Mr. Einstein.)

Anyways, that was a long rambling rant to say: Just because something cannot be proven, does not mean it is false or incorrect.

Good luck, ask questions and enjoy your hard won intellectual freedom.